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Post by tarbe on Mar 28, 2022 14:40:37 GMT
I am new to the PM world. Trying to educate myself.
Was doing a little reading this past week, in between my daily journeys out to the homestead to work (my idea of a vacation from the job that pays the bills).
Anyway...some interesting information I gleaned out of the mess we call the internet. These numbers will vary depending upon what source you use....but you get the general idea.
Gold:Silver ratio around 1913: 1.35:1
Gold:Silver ratio today: 77:1 (Gold selling for a lot more today, relative to Silver)
Gold:Silver mining ratio: 1:7 (seven times as much Silver)
% Gold into industrial uses: About 12% (most stockpiled as money)
% Silver into industrial uses: About 50% (most lost due to uneconomical recovery)
Silver is nearly twice as abundant in the earth's crust as Gold...I don't know the economics of recovery, relatively speaking.
All the above tells me:
1. Silver used to be worth more than today, relative to Gold.
2. We use more Silver than Gold in industry, and much of it is "lost".
3. We are extracting Silver at a greater rate than Gold, relative to its abundance (7 to 1 extraction vs roughly 2:1 abundance.
I also read that Silver is very important to the drive toward renewable energy...batteries, electronics, solar panels, etc.
Silver is also being used more and more for anti-microbial applications, even in textiles.
All this tells me Silver is being undervalued at the present time, relative to Gold.
Many say Gold and Silver are both manipulated by the Central Banks and COMEX, but Silver more than Gold.
What do you all think? As a PM novice, I'd love to hear you thoughts.
Tim
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Post by woolybear on Mar 28, 2022 15:05:53 GMT
The very little bit that I know about PM's. They are used to store your "wealth". Gold is used to store larger amounts of wealth, silver for smaller amounts. I use coinflation.com to track the current price of PM's. As of right now the prices are too high for me to consider investing at the moment - 3/28/22 at 7:49 am PDT gold is $1938.67/oz and silver is $25.06/oz. I can remember back around 2008 or 2015 silver was $11/oz (can't remember which year only that I was too involved with my mother and her cancer treatments and no time to get to the coin dealer) I invest mostly in silver (and only small amounts at that), but with the prices and scarce inventory I'm on pause. A large number of web based dealers are out of stock in silver. If you decide to buy PM's get the physical item in your hand, don't go with certificates. Deal in cash whenever you're able that way no paper trail. I would like to get the silver American Eagles but the premiums are rather high. So I went with Austrian Philharmonics, Silver Maples, British Britannia, Australian Perth Mint (I like animals lol) . I like for .999 or .9999 stamped on the coin. I try to stay only with known mints. When I first started out I was bidding on coins on Ebay, but now I watch for coins with the web dealers. These are two that I follow at the moment sdbullion.com/silver and this is the one I most recently bought from silvergoldbull.com/silver it was giving the best price on coins. I also order at least the minimum to get free shipping. |
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Post by blackfeather on Mar 28, 2022 17:23:11 GMT
Yes. Sliver is under valued, I believe the traditional ratio is around 15:1 through most of history averaged. But it is suppressed in the paper markets. Eventually the paper markets will no longer be able to control the price but when that takes place is anyone's guess. When silver does break out it will slingshot higher. It easily should be $50 an ounce now but it still floats around 25-27. The silver market is a small market and easier to manipulate.
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Post by solargeek on Mar 28, 2022 18:15:24 GMT
Your post made me look up the price and value of gold jewelry that is 14 karat. According to several sources, the multiplier is 58.7 times the weight of the necklace or ring without any stones included. Makes sense. Glad I know as I will now evaluate what I have.
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Post by Ozarks Tom on Mar 28, 2022 19:05:56 GMT
By percentage, it appears silver has increased in value quite a bit more than gold. Personally, I'd go with silver right now, as its industrial use seems to be increasing, meaning less for physical acquisition, driving the price up. That doesn't mean setting some gold aside once a person has what silver they consider to be sufficient wouldn't be a bad idea as woolybear, mentioned, for larger stores of wealth. Gold Eagles can be had in 1/10 and 1/4 ounce denominations at a slightly higher premium than 1 ounce, but possibly a bit more useful in a SHTF situation. In any case, DO NOT put PMs in a safety deposit box in a bank. If the economy were to crater overnight you'd have no access to them, and they might even be considered "bank assets" just like your checking and savings accounts. Not long ago the FBI raided a "private safe-deposit box" facility and confiscated everything in every box. They said it was being used for laundering drug money. Of course the huge majority of box owners were just honest people who didn't trust banks, but to my knowledge even with lawsuits none of the property has been returned to its owners. How would someone prove privately acquired gold coin/bars weren't bought with drug money? |
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Post by farmrbrown on Mar 28, 2022 19:43:57 GMT
By percentage, it appears silver has increased in value quite a bit more than gold. Personally, I'd go with silver right now, as its industrial use seems to be increasing, meaning less for physical acquisition, driving the price up. That doesn't mean setting some gold aside once a person has what silver they consider to be sufficient wouldn't be a bad idea as woolybear , mentioned, for larger stores of wealth. Gold Eagles can be had in 1/10 and 1/4 ounce denominations at a slightly higher premium than 1 ounce, but possibly a bit more useful in a SHTF situation. In any case, DO NOT put PMs in a safety deposit box in a bank. If the economy were to crater overnight you'd have no access to them, and they might even be considered "bank assets" just like your checking and savings accounts. Not long ago the FBI raided a "private safe-deposit box" facility and confiscated everything in every box. They said it was being used for laundering drug money. Of course the huge majority of box owners were just honest people who didn't trust banks, but to my knowledge even with lawsuits none of the property has been returned to its owners. How would someone prove privately acquired gold coin/bars weren't bought with drug money? Funny you should post that. I just got back from the bank today to make sure my wife was added to the safety deposit box access in case something happened to me and she needed to get in there. Mom's Trust papers, POA, etc. are in there. IDK if it was a new record set but it was close. In less than 3 minutes I'd heard enough flack from the little girl in management that I had gotten up and headed for the door, lol. After she came to her senses and we got 1 of 2 tasks accomplished (the 2nd one I'll handle myself in my usual way) I confirmed what I'd seen in the 'Terms and Conditions' regarding the safety deposit boxes. Nothing in them is insured by the bank or the FDIC To which I replied that I'd keep my valuables at home instead of bringing them here. (Gold and silver coins and bars) "Cuz it ain't really that safe, is it?" |
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Post by sawmilljim on Mar 28, 2022 23:16:22 GMT
Farmerbrown safe for them. You even get to pay them a fee to store it safely for them to steal
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Post by tarbe on Mar 29, 2022 1:44:31 GMT
Agree with all the above. Especially regarding "safe" deposit boxes, lol. What is particularly frustrating right now are the premiums on Silver...especially Silver Eagles. Holy cow...$13 an ounce over spot? That is over half the spot price!! My Silver buys so far have been Buffalo rounds and Britannia coins. I actually got the Britannia at $4.50 over spot, same as the Buffalo. Not crazy about the Queen...but the other side is quite beautiful! The Buffalo rounds make me feel like a kid again...we were always on the prowl for Buffalo Nickels in the 60s growing up. I did get some 1/10 gold eagles last fall...but the majority of my Gold is in 1 oz. The premium on the small coins was quite a bit more than the larger and I figure Silver is for barter, Gold for insurance/getting out of fiat. All this money printing and collusion between the banks and govts is really making me nervous about holding fiat in my credit union. Probably not all that different from the previous 40 years....just on steroids (and we are more awake?). I keep telling DW about bail-ins, Central Bank Digital Currency, 15% real inflation...hoping she will see the light and tell me to get more PMs. My net worth is split right now in a way that makes me very nervous...46% cash and only 5% PMs (the rest is mostly land, then the usual other stuff). Once we build the retirement house, the cash % will go down...but will still be too high for my comfort, at about 25-30%. Not where I want to be in this environment. Who has tips for scaring someone out of cash?  |
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Post by Ozarks Tom on Mar 29, 2022 13:03:25 GMT
tarbe , I'd start by asking if anyone has reason to believe anything the government tells us. If you haven't already, I'd explain what the word "fiat" really means - "because we said so!". Put those two together and you have the prime reason not to expect their assurances that greenbacks will always have value are any better than their assurance that inflation is "transitory". Right now every dollar in a bank account is losing value, that value being it's purchasing power in commodities, and there's no reason to expect our vote-buying politicians won't create even more imaginary dollars, reducing your worth even more. Right now, the dollar you had in your account last year is worth about $.85 vs food/energy, and decreasing by the day. Whereas someone who bought silver two years ago has overcome the premium they paid, and are in the black on their investment. That's because silver, being a commodity like wheat, has stayed the same vs other commodities while the dollar has decreased. Another way to look at it would be an hour glass, with your fiat dollars being in the upper chamber and slowly slipping away through inflation. Only tangibles won't slip away. I'd also point out that several years ago Congress passed a law, at the bankers request of course, to make their depositors "lenders" to the bank. In other words, if (when) there's a collapse similar to '08 but this time it can't be stopped, you go on the bank's list of creditors and your money is theirs, no emergency orders required, it just is. With the current global situation, wars/sanctions/trade embargoes the world's financial picture could change overnight. Trusting the government and banks with your security would seem a bit too optimistic to me.
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Post by tarbe on Mar 29, 2022 19:29:43 GMT
tarbe , I'd start by asking if anyone has reason to believe anything the government tells us. If you haven't already, I'd explain what the word "fiat" really means - "because we said so!". Put those two together and you have the prime reason not to expect their assurances that greenbacks will always have value are any better than their assurance that inflation is "transitory". Right now every dollar in a bank account is losing value, that value being it's purchasing power in commodities, and there's no reason to expect our vote-buying politicians won't create even more imaginary dollars, reducing your worth even more. Right now, the dollar you had in your account last year is worth about $.85 vs food/energy, and decreasing by the day. Whereas someone who bought silver two years ago has overcome the premium they paid, and are in the black on their investment. That's because silver, being a commodity like wheat, has stayed the same vs other commodities while the dollar has decreased. Another way to look at it would be an hour glass, with your fiat dollars being in the upper chamber and slowly slipping away through inflation. Only tangibles won't slip away. I'd also point out that several years ago Congress passed a law, at the bankers request of course, to make their depositors "lenders" to the bank. In other words, if (when) there's a collapse similar to '08 but this time it can't be stopped, you go on the bank's list of creditors and your money is theirs, no emergency orders required, it just is. With the current global situation, wars/sanctions/trade embargoes the world's financial picture could change overnight. Trusting the government and banks with your security would seem a bit too optimistic to me. The odd thing is, DW knows and understands all this. She knows what money printing is....it is essentially counterfeiting. And all those fake dollars make the previously printed fake dollars worth even less. She knows it...but there is a lot of momentum and normalcy bias we as humans have to overcome - and we don't all have the same tipping point. So I keep at it, and hope that sooner rather than later, she tells me to buy another Monster Box of Silver! And another tube of Gold Eagles... |
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Post by tarbe on Mar 30, 2022 0:51:30 GMT
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Post by tarbe on Mar 30, 2022 1:01:42 GMT
And a further PM musing....
I was headed to the feed store Saturday, thinking about the ~$190 I was going to spend for the 500 pounds of Purina feed I was going to buy.
I had two $100 bills in my wallet that were earmarked for Lakey Feed Store. I cringed just a little when I thought about letting them go.
Then my mind wandered to the thought of paying for this feed with 8 ounces of Silver (current spot price is about $25). Eight of those beautiful, weighty, minted Buffalo Rounds or Britannia coins.
That thought made me recoil!! And shake my head!! And start yelling "NO"!!!!!!!
Even though I have been conditioned for going on 7 decades to consider those Federal Reserve Debt Notes as money, somehow I instinctively knew that the paper is not really money....but the Silver is!
I find this kinda interesting that I would somehow value $200 of Silver so much more than $200 of notes. But as I think about it, there are probably sound reasons for this being so.
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Post by farmrbrown on Mar 30, 2022 1:29:25 GMT
IDK if it was Putin's idea to do this or not.....but it IS brilliant. |
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Post by tarbe on Mar 30, 2022 1:51:42 GMT
The Saudis are not taking Biden's calls.
China, India, Pakistan are standing with Russia.
Opec is giving Biden the middle finger.
There is a new cabal in town and it just might have the old cabal in its sights?
Time will tell, eh?
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Post by tarbe on Mar 30, 2022 13:35:45 GMT
Tom
Tried to find something on that legislation you referred to:
I'd also point out that several years ago Congress passed a law, at the bankers request of course, to make their depositors "lenders" to the bank. In other words, if (when) there's a collapse similar to '08 but this time it can't be stopped, you go on the bank's list of creditors and your money is theirs, no emergency orders required, it just is.
Could not find anything on a quick search. You wouldn't happen to have a bill number or search tip? I'd like to look at it in some detail.
My Google-Foo is evidently rather poor!
thanks,
Tim
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