|
|
Post by Jolly on Jul 11, 2020 20:16:35 GMT
I have an old Kubota lawnmower with the D600 three cylinder diesel. You can go to start it up and the starter may turn over or it may not. Checked the wiring going to the solenoid, it's fine. Battery has plenty of juice. All the lawyer-proof cut-outs are cut off. You might turn the key once, and it turns over. You may turn the key five times and it will bump, but no go. You may turn the key a couple of times and it turns over and starts the third time.
The cheap after-market starters are no bueno and a Kubota starter is right at $400, so before I put money out to have it rebuilt, is my problem in the starter?
|
|
|
|
Post by farmrbrown on Jul 11, 2020 20:33:41 GMT
Have you checked all the ground wires? (Good contact with the frame) *I was working on my Jeep yesterday. It has been sitting for months in the back yard, but I couldn't get it to start. The key would "beep" in the ignition, then ........ not a sound. Found all kinds of stuff that was easy to fix once I started looking  |
|
|
|
Post by Ozarks Tom on Jul 11, 2020 21:25:03 GMT
farmrbrown , May be onto something about bad grounds. I replaced the ignition on my Troybilt Horse tiller as it wouldn't shut off. Turned out the switch itself was the ground to kill the engine where it made contact with the holder. Wasted $30 when all I really needed to do was take it loose and steel wool the back of the switch.
|
|
|
|
Post by farmrbrown on Jul 11, 2020 21:47:58 GMT
I use my voltmeter a lot in those cases. Intermittent electrical problems are some of the most difficult to track down and have somehow become my specialty, for better or worse, lol. For example, just because the battery says 12.5 volts doesn't mean when you check it across the cables just an inch away that it won't read zero. Likewise once THAT is fixed, it doesn't mean the 12 volts made it to the starter, the ignition switch and/or back to the frame ground wire. If anything interrupts along the way, it won't start. You wouldn't think that tiny bit of rust or oxidized powder could stop it completely, but like Ozarks Tom , said a little abrasion and wrench work goes a long way. I mentioned working on an old Jeep yesterday that was sitting awhile.......... |
|
|
|
Post by fordy on Jul 12, 2020 1:24:59 GMT
I have an old Kubota lawnmower with the D600 three cylinder diesel. You can go to start it up and the starter may turn over or it may not. Checked the wiring going to the solenoid, it's fine. Battery has plenty of juice. All the lawyer-proof cut-outs are cut off. You might turn the key once, and it turns over. You may turn the key five times and it will bump, but no go. You may turn the key a couple of times and it turns over and starts the third time. The cheap after-market starters are no bueno and a Kubota starter is right at $400, so before I put money out to have it rebuilt, is my problem in the starter? ..................You may need a new BENDIX.......it is the little gear that engages the teeth on the flywheel when the key is turned to start and then disengages itself when the key is turned back to "Run" ! , fordy |
|
|
|
Post by Tim Horton on Jul 12, 2020 4:04:40 GMT
...............You may need a new BENDIX....
+++ Possible.... My usual experience with that has been the starter will engage, but quickly kick out of engagement and run with a whirrr type noise.. As in not keeping the bendix engaged until released when the starter is un powered..
If the quick, easy things, like grounds and all other connections don't work, pull the starter off and check function away from the ring gear... A starter overhaul with brushes, bearings, and the works is not a bad investment as they seem to accumulate ware quickly..
|
|
|
|
Post by Jolly on Jul 12, 2020 21:07:59 GMT
...............You may need a new BENDIX.... +++ Possible.... My usual experience with that has been the starter will engage, but quickly kick out of engagement and run with a whirrr type noise.. As in not keeping the bendix engaged until released when the starter is un powered.. If the quick, easy things, like grounds and all other connections don't work, pull the starter off and check function away from the ring gear... A starter overhaul with brushes, bearings, and the works is not a bad investment as they seem to accumulate ware quickly.. Connections are good...One of the first things I did was check for crud and then I put a meter on everything. Guess I'll pull the starter and check function. As I said, a new one is $$$. Wonder what it costs to have one rebuilt? |
|
|
|
Post by Ozarks Tom on Jul 13, 2020 1:44:23 GMT
Jolly, I look at it this way, if it wasn't cheaper to rebuild one than buying a new one, there wouldn't be any rebuilders. Had a 5hp electrical motor burn up on my one time, needed rewinding and rebuilding nearly from scratch. Checked the prices of new vs rebuilding, and went with the rebuild.
|
|
|
|
Post by farmrbrown on Jul 13, 2020 3:20:24 GMT
...............You may need a new BENDIX.... +++ Possible.... My usual experience with that has been the starter will engage, but quickly kick out of engagement and run with a whirrr type noise.. As in not keeping the bendix engaged until released when the starter is un powered.. If the quick, easy things, like grounds and all other connections don't work, pull the starter off and check function away from the ring gear... A starter overhaul with brushes, bearings, and the works is not a bad investment as they seem to accumulate ware quickly.. Connections are good...One of the first things I did was check for crud and then I put a meter on everything. Guess I'll pull the starter and check function. As I said, a new one is $$$. Wonder what it costs to have one rebuilt? Yep, looks like the only left is pull the starter. Take it out and bench test it, since it sounds like you have to repair/replace it anyway. The rebuild shops around here run about 1/2 to 2/3 the price of a new one. Just ask if they have a guarantee on their work. |
|
|
|
Post by joebill on Aug 23, 2020 15:31:27 GMT
I just now noticed this. Did it get fixed? If not, I might be able to help....lemme know....Joe
|
|
|
|
Post by Jolly on Aug 24, 2020 15:49:44 GMT
I just now noticed this. Did it get fixed? If not, I might be able to help....lemme know....Joe Haven't fixed it. But I can usually get it to start. Takes about three sharp taps with a ballpeen on the starter and she turns over and fires up. |
|
|
|
Post by fordy on Aug 24, 2020 16:30:47 GMT
I have an old Kubota lawnmower with the D600 three cylinder diesel. You can go to start it up and the starter may turn over or it may not. Checked the wiring going to the solenoid, it's fine. Battery has plenty of juice. All the lawyer-proof cut-outs are cut off. You might turn the key once, and it turns over. You may turn the key five times and it will bump, but no go. You may turn the key a couple of times and it turns over and starts the third time. The cheap after-market starters are no bueno and a Kubota starter is right at $400, so before I put money out to have it rebuilt, is my problem in the starter? .................When you turn the ignition key to 'Start' it sends power to the solenoid which is the high amperage switch that connects the battery directly to the starter ! IF , it is defective you may need a new ignition switch...........a lot cheaper than a new starter . , fordy |
|
|
|
Post by Jolly on Aug 24, 2020 21:36:19 GMT
No, the ignition switch is good.
|
|
|
|
Post by farmerjack41 on Aug 24, 2020 21:41:45 GMT
Could there be a flat spot in the windings. Tho I think I understood, part of the time it will not stay engaged, to me that would sound likecweak bendix spring.
|
|
|
|
Post by joebill on Aug 25, 2020 8:05:54 GMT
Sounds like a delco style starter with brushes not making contact all of the time.
Usually, if you pull the rear plate off and look at the brushes and commutator you can see it is a real mess.
The solenoid has two circuits inside, and it takes both to pull it into contact, only one to HOLD it in contact. One of those circuits is grounded through the brushes, the other goes straight to ground, so if the brushes or commutator is only making contact part-time, the hammer makes it happen.
IF it is a delco starter, no reason in the world to take it to the rebuilder. You can order brushes through any REAL parts supplier, and often the commutator is fine, but if it is messed up bad, I will turn it for you for the price of shipping there and back. They have to be REALLY bad to need turning, and often just a bit of polishing with fine sandpaper will do the trick. Once you are inside, they are truly simple to repair.
IF it is the delco, you can also overhaul the solenoid to zero hours by repositioning the two contact surfaces. You will see how to rotate a copper bolt 1/4 or 1/2 turn, invert the copper disc and reassemble. could not be more simple.
Starters are REALLY simple, and so are solenoids if they are not sealed. Delco starters are famous for being fixable temporarily with a hammer, so good chance that is what you got. Tear that sucker down and if you need help, send pictures.....Joe
|
|
