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Post by Jolly on Sept 28, 2020 1:51:03 GMT
So what's the difference between her not obeying a lawful order from a cop and some antifa dude on the street also disobeying a lawful order?
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Post by sawmilljim on Sept 28, 2020 2:12:23 GMT
So what's the difference between her not obeying a lawful order from a cop and some antifa dude on the street also disobeying a lawful order? You got to start from the beginning it began with the mask. Technically since it was not a violation of a law the cop should of walked. His job is once again not enforcement of policy/ rules but laws that are written.
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Post by Jolly on Sept 28, 2020 2:25:54 GMT
So what's the difference between her not obeying a lawful order from a cop and some antifa dude on the street also disobeying a lawful order? You got to start from the beginning it began with the mask. Technically since it was not a violation of a law the cop should of walked. His job is once again not enforcement of policy/ rules but laws that are written. No, don't dance. I'm going to stipulate that the cop was within his scope of authority to arrest her. Period. End of discussion on the mask point. Now, if that be the case (and I do think it is), what is the difference between her disobeying a legal order from an officer of the court and an antifa thug on the street disobeying a lawful order from a duly sworn officer of the court?
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Post by Jolly on Sept 28, 2020 3:05:58 GMT
I don't know anything about this story except the posts I've seen here. I'm just confused by the reactions of some of our gang. 1. If a cop tells you to leave or you'll be cited for trespassing, what should he do if you don't comply? You can argue he should not have trespassed her, but sometimes cops are wrong and, as Jolly said, judges have to sort it out. So what should the cop do at that point? 2. Based on many of the messages here, I assume many of you think he should have let her be after she refused his order. How many of you think that when a cop tells a non violent BLM protester on public property to move on and the protester doesn't, that the cop should taze the guy or arrest him or physically make him move? 3. Do you have a different standard for someone watching a sports game vs someone protesting a political cause you may or may not support? See #3.
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Post by Jolly on Sept 28, 2020 3:13:56 GMT
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Post by sawmilljim on Sept 28, 2020 4:42:22 GMT
You got to start from the beginning it began with the mask. Technically since it was not a violation of a law the cop should of walked. His job is once again not enforcement of policy/ rules but laws that are written. No, don't dance. I'm going to stipulate that the cop was within his scope of authority to arrest her. Period. End of discussion on the mask point. Now, if that be the case (and I do think it is), what is the difference between her disobeying a legal order from an officer of the court and an antifa thug on the street disobeying a lawful order from a duly sworn officer of the court? Last I heard cops need probably cause that a crime is occurring or has occurred before they have a legal right to even question a citizen. As the woman’s lawyer said they had no legal right to even approach her much less arrest her. The cop in fact approached her for a non crime. He in effect creating the crime enforcing policy. I do hope when she cashes her check they disclose the amount !
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Post by sawmilljim on Sept 28, 2020 5:00:39 GMT
I missed something again point out the death threats in that article please ?
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Post by Jolly on Sept 28, 2020 10:56:52 GMT
No, don't dance. I'm going to stipulate that the cop was within his scope of authority to arrest her. Period. End of discussion on the mask point. Now, if that be the case (and I do think it is), what is the difference between her disobeying a legal order from an officer of the court and an antifa thug on the street disobeying a lawful order from a duly sworn officer of the court? Last I heard cops need probably cause that a crime is occurring or has occurred before they have a legal right to even question a citizen. As the woman’s lawyer said they had no legal right to even approach her much less arrest her. The cop in fact approached her for a non crime. He in effect creating the crime enforcing policy. I do hope when she cashes her check they disclose the amount ! You're still dancing. This is a simple question. What is the difference between her disobeying a legal order from an officer of the court and an antifa thug on the street disobeying a lawful order from a duly sworn officer of the court?
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Post by Jolly on Sept 28, 2020 11:02:35 GMT
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Post by sawmilljim on Sept 28, 2020 14:09:25 GMT
No dance the cop never gave her a lawful order. As seen his start point was not legal.
As I said her lawyer is going to get a ton of cash. As to any thug on the street cops love to give directives anyone standing or walking on public areas are free to do so till they actually breach the law. Again policy is not law.
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Post by DEKE on Sept 28, 2020 14:34:02 GMT
Jim, you keep ignoring the fact that that cop has two jobs, working as security for the school to enforce school policy, and working for the city to enforce law. As a representative of the school, he can direct anyone to leave school property for violating school policy.
You could call the cops on me and tell the cops you don't want me on your land for pretty much any reason you wanted. Once the cop warns me and witnesses me still on your land, I've committed a crime for which I can be arrested.
That is just what happened here, except the cop is playing the role of both the land owner and the arresting cop.
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Post by Jolly on Sept 28, 2020 14:37:30 GMT
Again: What is the difference between her disobeying a legal order from an officer of the court and an antifa thug on the street disobeying a lawful order from a duly sworn officer of the court? There is a reason you don't want to answer this simple question. The answer is that there is none. A lawful order is a lawful order. You don't get to pick and choose who you apply the law to. White women do not take precedence over black men, who do not take precedence over native Americans, etc. A lawful order from a duly appointed officer of the court is valid, no matter what sex, race or size the cop may be and no matter what sex, race or size the person may be receiving the order. Don't let your opinions about the legality of mask rules, cloud the essence of police authority in society. If that be the case, then are we any better than the anarchists burning down buildings in Portland? They think they are right, too. Back to the case... I think this is a decent summation of events: leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2020/09/fact-check-tiffany-woman-was-not-arrested-for-not-wearing-a-mask-she-was-arrested-for-criminal-trespassing.htmlPlease read the link to the Logan Police Department Police Department contained in the piece. Lastly, I cannot confirm it, but I have been told that the woman who was arrested, is known to the police in that area for drug abuse, weapons charges and other crimes. I don't know if that's who I would pick as my poster child for civil disobedience.
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Post by DEKE on Sept 28, 2020 14:50:24 GMT
From Jolly's last link, this is the critical piece:
>>>>>>> Legal expert and Lead Anchor for Court TV Vinnie Politan explained the details about the video caught on camera to Lead Stories:
"She was arrested for criminal trespassing, not for not wearing a mask. You can set the conditions or rules for entry into your facility. For example no shoes, no shirt and if you're not following those requirements then we can ask you to leave. If you refuse to leave now it is trespassing," he told Lead Stories during a Sept. 25, 2020 phone interview.
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Post by sawmilljim on Sept 28, 2020 16:29:55 GMT
Jim, you keep ignoring the fact that that cop has two jobs, working as security for the school to enforce school policy, and working for the city to enforce law. As a representative of the school, he can direct anyone to leave school property for violating school policy. You could call the cops on me and tell the cops you don't want me on your land for pretty much any reason you wanted. Once the cop warns me and witnesses me still on your land, I've committed a crime for which I can be arrested. That is just what happened here, except the cop is playing the role of both the land owner and the arresting cop. Nope I didn't ignore anything . The resource officer had no lawful reason to even approach the woman If he had any training at all he should knew the difference in policy and law . Also there is a huge difference in public property and private property . To effect a trespass on any tax payer funded property a law must be broke or being broke in advance of being told to leave . No law was broke . No way under color of law can the cop get by with playing land owner on public property . I hope the woman don't spend all her money on frivolous things . Now to hear from her lawyer . This is not a local court case but Federal . Logan school and police officials have said that Kitts was asked to leave and then removed as a trespasser when she failed to comply with the officer’s orders. “She committed no crime and thus committed no ‘criminal trespass,'” Thompson said. “Logan School District totally misapplied the law, and misapplied it haphazardly and violently.” fox8.com/news/attorney-says-school-district-misapplied-law-in-arresting-woman-with-no-mask-at-football-game/
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Post by DEKE on Sept 28, 2020 16:43:25 GMT
OK, you're still ignoring what has been said and the plain facts, I'll drop it. No sense in going in round and round in circles. Of course her lawyer has said something in her defense, that's what he's paid to do. The courts will decided.
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