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Post by paisley2 on Dec 21, 2021 13:33:14 GMT
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Post by Ozarks Tom on Dec 21, 2021 15:14:51 GMT
A whole lot more work and probably disappointment than I'd want to go through.
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Post by joebill on Dec 22, 2021 12:49:42 GMT
Sorry I missed this until now.
I'll comment on it further later today or tomorrow, but;
1. yes, it's possible and/but
2. I think it's a whole lot of trouble to go through to avoid spending a single cent, when there are a LOT simpler designs out there that could be ran long term and maybe used to do some work, when this one would not be practical for long term use or to run machinery.
As for the safety angle, that depends almost completely on the boiler, and it IS a huge concern. Air tanks are dangerous enough, and compressed air is limited in it's expansion if the tank ruptures, but when/if a steam boiler ruptures one cubic inch of water will morph into 2000 cubic inches of steam when the pressure is released, given enough heat.
That does not mean you cannot build or acquire a boiler that is safe, and the lower pressure you run, the safer it will be, and testing procedures are pretty simple, so there is that.
I guess I just need to inquire if you are trying to demonstrate a home built steam engine or if you hope to build one that will do work around your place or run a tractor or generator long term. Both are do-able, but each would be best started down different paths. A basic steam donkey engine that would run for decades is a LOT simpler than that lawn mower engine, if you take a breath and study it's construction a bit....rotsa ruck, and again, sorry I missed this until now.....Joe
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Post by joebill on Dec 22, 2021 20:48:57 GMT
On second thought, the blue engines have a cast iron sleeve in the cylinder, and that would convert a rather useless tube with temperature/expansion problems into a pretty dang decent cylinder with the capacity to run for aa LONG time.
Main problem I see is that it needs some sort of better valving system than using the engine valves. a slider valve, seperate from the engine block would not be that complex, and would bring it up several levels from a mere demonstration machine.
IF you use a horizontal shaft engine rather than the rotary mower engine, it would have a real flywheel instead of using the blade for a flywheel, and that would also be a huge advantage.
The author chiseled the fins off of the block to reduce heat loss, but I would stuff thed slots in between the fins with fiberglass insulation and accomplish the same job only a LOT better. Gas engines strive to disperse heat, but steam engines need to hold and cherish as much heat as possible......Joe
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Post by paisley2 on Dec 23, 2021 2:06:58 GMT
I am totally distracted.....
Ok.....a wee bit of east coast drama.
My niece turns 18 on the 24 th and she is a senior in high school On the 25 christmas...then on the 26 she FLIES to FL gets married and returns to on 1-1 2022 new York minus husband ( he first heads to tx) and she finishes high school. She will join the military but hubby has a 18month Ranger deal....sure glad my brother is handling this. Both fathers of the couple are on the same page....m what the hell is the rush!!!! Seems no parents will be there.
He comes from a great family but it is a divorce family and daddy got the boy and raised him ( on daddy side) mom might be a trophy wife with a talent for finding good lawyers. She is the one cheering for this marriage........ I am stunned. My niece is so stable and mature...responsible oh my......being Married gets the family houseing....I do not know military stuff ...but the housing seems like a crazy reason yo my brother and I ......he grad number 1 in his military school so he's no slouch...his family is real old money only his mom is the weak link ....my brother and the father of the guy are not jumping for joy .....the fathers have nothing against the other's child....both are ....yrs, you are adults on 24th but ..he's leaving for 18 months ....why not wait. Crazy.... ...
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Post by blackfeather on Dec 23, 2021 20:16:28 GMT
I've thought of the same thing, you see people on Youtube showing how they are making a steam engine out of a lawnmower engine or a weed wacker engine. One thing you never see is how the completed project works in the long run. They usually play with compressed air while designing it and you see them try it out, but I haven't seen anyone showing how they use it to run a device like a power generator to power their house. This leads me to believe they aren't durable over time or require to be tinkered with all the time.
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Post by Ozarks Tom on Dec 23, 2021 23:18:01 GMT
An amateur playing with steam is very likely to get grievously hurt. Most people just don't realize the destructive force let loose when steam goes from controlled to uncontrolled.
I bought a few loads of wood from a sawmill and had them shipped about 50 miles to a kiln drying operation. The owner of the sawmill and I conversed for a while, and he mused about the drying kiln operation that used to be about 2 miles away. You have to remember, drying kilns use steam radiators to dry the wood, very closely monitored to maintain a "drying schedule". Those radiator pipes are steam heated by a central boiler. Well, the owner told me, one night the boiler attendant, who was a known drunk, disappeared - along with the boiler and half the kilns.
His advice? Don't hire your drunken brother-in-law to watch your boiler.
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Post by Tim Horton on Dec 25, 2021 6:58:11 GMT
At an old SAC air base I spent way too much time on trying to keep things working.... The boiler for the base laundry was a D pattern Sterling as apposed to the Scotch Marine types in all other uses...
His advice? Don't hire your drunken brother-in-law to watch your boiler.
This is somewhat similar to how they lost both front and back wall to the boiler house in the laundry....
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Post by joebill on Dec 27, 2021 3:02:26 GMT
I read about a tractor that weighed in around 15000 pounds jumping 10 feet in the air as the boiler let go, but that does not mean it cannot be done safely. One of the most simple and fool proof devices ever invented was the weight-type safety relief valve, and you can add a dozen of them in various places if you want. Pressure testing a boiler is done by filling it up with water first, then pressurizing the last tiny empty chamber with air pressure or any other type of pump, including a grease gun. Water does NOT COMPRESS, so if the boiler ruptures, it will just leak, no expansion so no explosion. On the other hand, the huge mining truck tires we used at the copper mines would sometimes blow if backed into a sharp rock, and it was really hard to tell if it was a tire blowing or the truck backing over an unexploded stick of dynamite with it's cap still attached. Safety literature said one of those tires blowing had enough energy to send a bowling ball 16 miles distant, but we never tried it..  .....Joe |
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Post by paisley2 on Dec 29, 2021 18:54:08 GMT
It would be nice to use steam power with so much wood here but it seems out of abilty.
And sorry she did get married!
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Post by joebill on Jan 21, 2022 9:33:43 GMT
Just keep in mind that steam power brought about the industrial revolution, with it's huge potential and ultra simple conversion from fuel to power. Early in the nuke power saga, Uncle Joe won some big bets when he was able to illustrate that huke power at that point was still steam power, with the nuke technology heating up the water.
IF we ever have to start over with learning to power machines to do work, I have not much doubt we will again do it with steam. It is too simple by far to ignore.
No question in my mind also that some innocents will die in boiler explosions, but that is how we will learn, once again, to make safe boilers.....Joe
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Post by Jolly on Jan 21, 2022 23:41:02 GMT
We had a boilerman leave for a higher paying job. There was a reason the new job paid more, because everything was held together with baking wire and bubblegum. The worst element, though, was the new boilerman (we were glad to see him go), who had a drug problem.
He was tending a boiler at a wood products plant in Winfield, burning bark, sawdust and chips. Apparently, somebody bypassed some safeties and the boiler blew.
The fire inspector showed me his investigation pictures. The boiler had been in a metal building, sitting on a concrete slab. The building was no more and the largest piece of it they found, was no bigger than 3x3 feet. The slab was fine dust where the boiler had sat. They found the boiler door in a cow pasture...One mile away from the explosion.
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Post by joebill on Jan 22, 2022 3:41:10 GMT
I had a chance to buy a sort of island in the Cimarron River near Springer NM, and it had obviously been put to industrial use, but it took a while to figure out WHAT had been made there. I finally figured out they had been casting concrete blocks using sand and gravel from the river, coal from near the Colorado border to run a boiler for curing the blocks, and of course water from the river to feed the boiler. The concrete floor in the curing room was slanted to drain off the condensed water and send it back to the river. Pretty neat setup, really, but no way in the world would the EPA OR OSHA allow the place to re-open as built. That was prob'ly who shut it down in the first place, but the owner was perfectly willing to let me buy it and find that out for myself Lots of NICE GUYS out there ...Joe |
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Post by Tim Horton on Jan 22, 2022 19:32:46 GMT
They found the boiler door in a cow pasture...One mile away from the explosion.
--- ---
Where or did they ever find the boiler tender ??
Yes.. Most of the industrial revolution was powered by steam.. Many of the advances of the world through the 1960s or so still used a lot of steam power to operate.. Most of the data that a lot of this technology was based on was from records kept of evaporation, fuel consumption, and the like from the Scotish whiskey distillers before and during the early part of the industrial revolution..
One simple element of this process is the change of a compound from a liquid to a gas... There in is the source of power for the whole process...
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Post by joebill on Jan 23, 2022 23:14:22 GMT
I used to sell and service the old "steam Jenny steam cleaners, and every time I fired up one, I looked at that coiled pipe boiler and thought about steam engines. Obviously, the pressure was lower, but it was pretty common for them to spring leaks, especially in the spring after they had set with water freezing in them all winter long. NEVER any damage, and they were only shrouded by a sheet meatl tube. One of the most common malfunctions was when the water supply ran short to the boiler and she began generating "dry steam" that came flying out of there like a scalded dog, obviously under greatly increased pressure! In fact, some operators were known for shutting the water almost off so they could use that REALLY HOT and high pressure steam for tough cleaning jobs. The first one I ever operated was at a gas station where I worked in Springfield Illinois, and this old guy came in and introduced himself as Rexal Easton, the famous race car driver and wanted me to steam clean his engine on his old Pontiac. I had the machine really putting out the steam when I accidentally ran it acrross one fender and took the old oxidized paint off right down to the metal! I thought I was in deep do-do for a minute, but he just laughed it off and paid for the cleaning with no protest. About that time the station's owner came in and shouted "HI REX"! so it turned out he was who he said he was. I had watched him crack up on the fairground speedway a few years previous in what I think might have been his last race. He was pretty bitter at the point I met him that none of the old crowd wanted to hang with him any more, like he was bad luck. Ge! I am glad that I am such a PEACH of a guy in my old age .....Joe |
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.....Joe