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Post by Ozarks Tom on Apr 18, 2016 20:53:50 GMT
We tin foil hat people have said for years precious metals are being manipulated by the big holders, now Deutsche Bank has not only admitted it, but they're going to turn over evidence against their co-conspirators. If Sawmilljim lived closer, I'd buy him a beer. Many expected that this case would never go anywhere and that the defendant banks would stonewall indefinitely: after all their legal budgets were far greater than the plaintiffs.
Which is why we were surprised to read overnight that not only has this lawsuit against precious metals manipulation not been swept away, but that the lead defendant, troulbed German bank Deutsche Bank agreed to settle the litigation over allegations it illegally conspired with Bank of Nova Scotia and HSBC Holdings Plc to fix silver prices at the expense of investors, Reuters reported citing a court filing on Wednesday showed.
srsroccoreport.com/deutsche-bank-confirms-silver-market-manipulation-in-legal-settlement-agrees-to-expose-other-banks/
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2016 22:11:09 GMT
So help me out here... Were they fixing the price artificially high or low?? I guess I'm out of the loop in this. I
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Post by whereiwant2b on Apr 18, 2016 22:36:26 GMT
I imagine the fix simply went the way up or down, depending on where the money was to be made. But I don't understand either.
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Post by sawmilljim on Apr 19, 2016 0:06:13 GMT
Tom I may just drive up that way some day .
The fix is on both silver and gold. banks knowing paper is fast becoming worthless keep both suppressed They even go so far as to have the Gov run media say it only has industrial value .
So now the good part the Fed owned banks are taking that soon to be worthless paper and buying all they can without the average person being aware cheep !
Next thing being controlled is house prices lots of big bank owners bought huge amounts of them to turn into rental property, they really don't care what they pay for them as they are using money created out of thin air anyway. Now that looks like a opposite strategy on houses and metals and it is, there are thousands buying houses and if they let the price crash to the real worth ,then bought them up at fire sale prices every Tom,Dick and Harry would see the scam and raise more cain than a pig under a gate. Thus their game would be in jeopardy of causing a all out rebellion.
News flash this is no longer a free country in any respect .The Gov is owned and controlled by the bankers, for the most part the only news we get is that fits in the big plan of these bankers . All they will do is fine these banks big fines whitch they could care less about as they own the printing presses , but it quiets the dissenters . Their balancing act is to keep everything controlled so the serfs don't take up ropes and guns to take away their power.
Since they know the dollar is dying when they come out on the other side they intend to own real wealth . If this plan works those not renting a house or land from these bankers shadow corporations will be paying big taxes to the Gov. for the house they done paid for .
Hold onto your hat it is going to get rough over night some night soon.
Sorry for the ramble The answer is if they let the free market control metals ie silver and gold the common people of the world would see that all fiat currency is a scam and has no real worth.
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Post by pearl b on Apr 19, 2016 0:43:26 GMT
The only thing I think keeping an absolute collapse at bay is that they don't have total control of guns yet.
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Post by sawmilljim on Apr 19, 2016 1:08:27 GMT
The only thing I think keeping an absolute collapse at bay is that they don't have total control of guns yet. Could be but Not my thoughts . They just don't have every last cent rung out of the people yet. Not in the fiait way but in real wealth. If the bankers institute the crash histroy says they will take us to war as a cover for the system failure , got to put the blame on someone else.. Do some real digging ever dictator the US has declared war on in the name of terrorism was in the process of selling oil in other currency other than the dollar .Every one of them look it up .The old crap they handed the people was weapons of mass destructions was a farase. Fact many have died trying to save the petrodollar . I know this don't fit into the everyday American thinking and that is what TPTB capitalize on . |
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Post by pearl b on Apr 19, 2016 1:23:31 GMT
They are beating the war drums again too. They will will be well out of range when it comes down
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Post by sawmilljim on Apr 19, 2016 1:46:54 GMT
They are beating the war drums again too. They will will be well out of range when it comes down Yep not many have looked into the elite's get out of range bunkers either . Anyone thinks we the people are anything but cannon fodder to those folks needs to get their head examined real fast . |
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Post by blackfeather on Apr 19, 2016 2:43:42 GMT
I doubt you'll see any of our banks convicted of manipulation of gold and silver. The one case I knew about, the bank said they were acting on instructions from their client. The judge dismissed the case. As it turned out their client was the US government. It is perfectly legal in America for the government to manipulate any market, and they do regularly. So if the banks were given orders by the treasury department to suppress metal prices in order to defend the dollar, they can't and won't be prosecuted by that same government. Kind of falls into the same category that congressmen can legally conduct insider trading.
Good news is the Shanghai gold fix just came on line, it is controlled not by our banks or government but by the Chinese. They apparently have no interest in keeping the price of gold low much longer. What will happen is if London or New York has a lower price than Shanghai, traders will arbitrage the gold. This means they will buy gold in New York or London and sell it in Shanghai and make money on the difference in price. This will cause gold to move even more rapidly to the east. The banks will have no choice but to match Shanghai or lose what gold they have left. So unless the Chinese want to play games like the west does, the price will have to increase over time. I don't believe it is in their interest to play games, I think they want and need the price of gold to rise so that they can eventually back the Yuan at least in part with gold. The Shanghai fix is a physical market, no trading paper to suppress the price.
Silver will be dragged along with gold, and most predict once it gets going silver will out preform gold.
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Post by Ozarks Tom on Apr 19, 2016 3:15:56 GMT
So help me out here... Were they fixing the price artificially high or low?? I guess I'm out of the loop in this. I It fairly complicated, and I'm not certain I can explain it correctly in all it's detail. Basically, the FIX is a price declared by the major precious metals trading companies, mainly huge banks. It's determined, or supposed to be, by the ask/buy prices being offered in the marketplace. However, the ask/buy prices are greatly influenced by the FIX, which the big banks illegally move up or down depending on who among them wants to sell or buy. It's usually a few cents per ounce spread on silver, and when the banks are dealing in huge orders a few cents per ounce adds up quickly, especially if they're only holding their position for a few minutes or hours. What it amounts to is this - they've been keeping the market from doing what free and honest markets do, appreciate or depreciate depending on supply and demand. If a buyer needs a ton of silver, and finds a seller at $15/oz, but the FIX says the price should be $14/oz, the buyer thinks he's being robbed and doesn't buy. The seller can't find a buyer at $15/oz anymore so is forced to sell at the FIX price. If the big banks couldn't control the market, they couldn't slip their own trades through at a guaranteed profit. Another form of manipulation is the "leasing" of physical precious metal to another entity, who turns around and sells it as shares to investors. Investors own roughly 300% more silver shares than there is physical silver. Crazy? Yes. Illegal? Should be, but not. For about the past 15 years the percentage charged for "leasing" physical silver has been around 0.5%, but over recent months has increased to around 20%. In other words, the owners of the silver know the jig is soon to be up, and are making all the profit they can while they can. Conversely, the lessees are desperate enough to pay the high percentages and continue selling shares. Between the banks getting caught with their thumbs on the scales, and the disparity between physical and shares, things are going to be changing in precious metals in the very near future. At least that's my take on it, but I'm not a professional investment advisor, so take it for what it's worth. |
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Post by sawmilljim on Apr 19, 2016 3:25:41 GMT
So help me out here... Were they fixing the price artificially high or low?? I guess I'm out of the loop in this. I It fairly complicated, and I'm not certain I can explain it correctly in all it's detail. Basically, the FIX is a price declared by the major precious metals trading companies, mainly huge banks. It's determined, or supposed to be, by the ask/buy prices being offered in the marketplace. However, the ask/buy prices are greatly influenced by the FIX, which the big banks illegally move up or down depending on who among them wants to sell or buy. It's usually a few cents per ounce spread on silver, and when the banks are dealing in huge orders a few cents per ounce adds up quickly, especially if they're only holding their position for a few minutes or hours. What it amounts to is this - they've been keeping the market from doing what free and honest markets do, appreciate or depreciate depending on supply and demand. If a buyer needs a ton of silver, and finds a seller at $15/oz, but the FIX says the price should be $14/oz, the buyer thinks he's being robbed and doesn't buy. The seller can't find a buyer at $15/oz anymore so is forced to sell at the FIX price. If the big banks couldn't control the market, they couldn't slip their own trades through at a guaranteed profit. Another form of manipulation is the "leasing" of physical precious metal to another entity, who turns around and sells it as shares to investors. Investors own roughly 300% more silver shares than there is physical silver. Crazy? Yes. Illegal? Should be, but not. For about the past 15 years the percentage charged for "leasing" physical silver has been around 0.5%, but over recent months has increased to around 20%. In other words, the owners of the silver know the jig is soon to be up, and are making all the profit they can while they can. Conversely, the lessees are desperate enough to pay the high percentages and continue selling shares. Between the banks getting caught with their thumbs on the scales, and the disparity between physical and shares, things are going to be changing in precious metals in the very near future. At least that's my take on it, but I'm not a professional investment advisor, so take it for what it's worth. Also remember those banks are keeping tons of that silver and not selling it . |
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Post by blackfeather on Apr 19, 2016 14:14:22 GMT
It is important to note that under the current western system, silver and gold stay put. When the silver or gold is sold, only the paper is moved. The comex, last I knew had close to 500 ounces of paper certificates for gold for every actual ounce they had in stock. So it is easy to dump tons of silver or gold on the market, change the price yet not actually have the gold or silver in the bank to do it. If you went to the comex and said I just bought a ton of paper gold now I want the real thing, they would settle in cash, you would not get the gold. Same with silver. This is why the Shanghai fix is important as they only deal in real physical metal, no paper shenanigans. They settle contracts in real metal, not cash. It is an honest market.
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Post by paisley on Apr 19, 2016 16:20:16 GMT
It is important to note that under the current western system, silver and gold stay put. When the silver or gold is sold, only the paper is moved. The comex, last I knew had close to 500 ounces of paper certificates for gold for every actual ounce they had in stock. So it is easy to dump tons of silver or gold on the market, change the price yet not actually have the gold or silver in the bank to do it. If you went to the comex and said I just bought a ton of paper gold now I want the real thing, they would settle in cash, you would not get the gold. Same with silver. This is why the Shanghai fix is important as they only deal in real physical metal, no paper shenanigans. They settle contracts in real metal, not cash. It is an honest market. Blackfeather... I am quoting you because I got but.... I kept failing when explaining it to my son. |
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Post by blackfeather on Apr 20, 2016 3:22:35 GMT
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Post by Ozarks Tom on Apr 20, 2016 12:18:51 GMT
Last week I called the local dealer I buy from, made a deal, and told him I'd be in to pick it up yesterday. When I got there he said "geez Tom, you're killing me! I'm making nothing compared to what I could sell it for today"
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