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Post by Wanderer0101 on Nov 24, 2015 13:41:28 GMT
Two Turkish F-16s shot down a Russian jet they say was over their border and had been warned. Both crewmen dead, one apparently shot by rebels on the Syrian side of the border after he parachuted down. Gutsy of the Turks.
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Post by farmgirl on Nov 24, 2015 15:21:26 GMT
This will not end well. Got a really bad feeling about this.
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Post by whereiwant2b on Nov 24, 2015 15:38:50 GMT
So many chances for posturing to a point events run out of any chance of resolving. Turkey is a NATO member at the moment.
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Post by Ozarks Tom on Nov 24, 2015 15:42:04 GMT
So many chances for posturing to a point events run out of any chance of resolving. Turkey is a NATO member at the moment. Unless cool heads prevail, there's a huge risk of escalation. NATO is required by treaty to defend any member. If Russia decides retaliation is needed to save face, this could get ugly in a hurry. One bright side, we should know in the next few days if it's going anywhere. |
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Post by gibbsgirl on Nov 24, 2015 17:30:09 GMT
Shooting PA achuting pilots is a war crime, I think.
And, if the Turks shot them down that is already complicated enough.
But, add to that, that apparently, the free syrian army, which is backed by the united States admitted with video to shooting the Russian pilots, and this sounds like it has the potential to launch ww3, in much the same way ww1 was began.
I read that on the video released, you can hear some people in the group that shot the pilots, saying to not shoot them and to take them prisoner instead.
I feel badly for the families of the pilots who have to deal with the images of the pilots being killed and their dead bodies. They no doubt will now be cast as players in a massive game of propaganda chess that won't help them grieve, IMO.
FYI, I admit I may not have all the details correct here. Been catching what news I can of it this morning.
It's a mess though undoubtedly. I'd bet the farm NATO's actions or lack of actions will not be helpful. Ironically, NATO was supposed to end the wars, etc, etc
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Post by poppy on Nov 24, 2015 18:00:35 GMT
Turkey need not expect NATO support if they get into a fight with Russia. Obama don't even want to fight our enemies, let alone Turkeys. His response would be to call for negotiations. Anyway Turkey is wrong and deserves no support. The proper response would have been to file a complaint with Russia and the UN. It would be different if it had been a formation of jets heading directly into Turkish airspace but one jet was no real threat to Turkey. For all they knew, it could have been a Russian pilot wanting to defect.
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Post by farmgirl on Nov 24, 2015 18:05:14 GMT
Just read on CNN that Obama is saying Turkey has a right to defend it's airspace. I had read earlier today that the plane was in Syria airspace. I do not feel very good about this. I really hope I'm totally wrong though.
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Post by farmgirl on Nov 24, 2015 18:07:02 GMT
If they did shoot the pilots while they were parachuting down, Russia will not take it well.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2015 18:29:22 GMT
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Post by gibbsgirl on Nov 24, 2015 18:40:17 GMT
Just read on CNN that Obama is saying Turkey has a right to defend it's airspace. I had read earlier today that the plane was in Syria airspace. I do not feel very good about this. I really hope I'm totally wrong though. Not shocked he is prematurely making statements that claim sides. Started with beergate, been going strong since then. |
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Post by farmgirl on Nov 24, 2015 18:52:30 GMT
Just read on CNN that Obama is saying Turkey has a right to defend it's airspace. I had read earlier today that the plane was in Syria airspace. I do not feel very good about this. I really hope I'm totally wrong though. Not shocked he is prematurely making statements that claim sides. Started with beergate, been going strong since then. Wonder if he realizes or cares that this may be the beginning of WWIII? |
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Post by Ozarks Tom on Nov 24, 2015 19:47:35 GMT
I wouldn't predict obama's reaction just yet. He and Erdogan for some reason are tight. A couple years ago it was reported he talked to Erdogan more than any other world leader.
From what I understand the NATO treaty doesn't allow for discretion in whether or not to defend a member. I wouldn't put it past obama to break the treaty, but it would literally be world shaking.
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Post by gibbsgirl on Nov 24, 2015 20:03:34 GMT
I wouldn't predict obama's reaction just yet. He and Erdogan for some reason are tight. A couple years ago it was reported he talked to Erdogan more than any other world leader. From what I understand the NATO treaty doesn't allow for discretion in whether or not to defend a member. I wouldn't put it past obama to break the treaty, but it would literally be world shaking. The world's been shaking for many years now IMO. The only thing IMO to do is to try and work on your sea legs. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2015 20:57:38 GMT
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Post by fixitguy on Nov 24, 2015 23:29:32 GMT
Looks like NATO is backing turkeys decision to shot the plane down. Russia closed their embassy in turkey. Things are going to get ugly...
Add in the refuge crisis, we got a hot mess.
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