WTC 7

[Deleted]

So I’m late to the party, as usual, but the overwhelming question is what fire could possibly be so severe that it could cause the collapse of wtc7? No planes crashed into it, it’s mainly metal and glass and without a major accelerant what’s going to cause such damage to cause collapse? IDK but these type of questions and no solid answers are what lead to “conspiracy theories”.

Let us not forget the way Hitler and his henchmen managed to kill over 6 million people... He simply lied to them and they bought it. Give up your guns, get in these cars, the government is your friend, believe what we are telling you.... People today are no less gullible and if you question the official story, then you are a Conspiracy nut!

Question, challenge, research always.

The government is not your friend and killing a few thousand folks to forward an agenda..... shrug.

[joebill]

Yeah, and it has a LOT more energy per gallon. Try melting cast iron with propane or gasoline, best you can do is make it kinda gummy. If you want to set up to melt cast iron, you are going to need to fuel the operation with some kind of coal or coke or oil or diesel through a spray nozzle, or aireate it by something like a crashed plane. When the body of flame gets hot and big enough, it will establish it's own forced-air movement through air going into the base o f the flames and shooting upwards.

I cannot answer for building #7 falling down, but once the forces start getting applied to it that it was never made for, all sorts of crazy stuff starts happening, much of which I have never tried to puzzle out.

When you build a house, the frame is REALLY wobbly, and the first timers are always looking for a way to brace it up, not rarely, with just the bare frame standing, a moderate breeze will blow the whole thing over and you have to start again.
Now, we start putting the sheathing on the walls and it begins to "sturdy up", but you can still grab the middle of a wall and shake it in and out a LOT, even after the rafters are in place. You begin to think it never will be sturdy if you have not built one before. Maybe you go ahead and put in the sub-floor and it still shakes and moves when you touch a wall, and if you have a ladder p-ropped against the side of it to start decking the roof, you get a queasy feeling when you climb it from all of the movement the building is transmitting to the ladder.

It will not ever be sturdy until you have decked the roof. Now, it is normal to believe that the walls hold the roof up, but the roof also holds up the walls, so to speak. Makes them no longer subject to movement and eliminates the weakness.

Not trying to apply this to building 7, but only to illustrate that without a lot of study and experience, one will rarely recognize all of the weaknesses in a building or the ways it can fail.

An event called "critical vibrations of the lower orders" can and has collapsed some mighty huge structures where certain elements vibrate at a pitch directly divisible by the pitch of other elements.

One such case was "galloping Gertie" the huge bridge across Tacoma Narrows. Aparently the wind added the pitch that started the disaster, and possibly the pitch of the disaster in the other tower might have started the disintegration in #7. I would not know, would not even guess. O those who say it is impossible , though, I would invite them to view the following......Joe

[joebill]

Anybody who would like to walk into the middle of a conversation about resonance and critical pitch vibrations of the lower and higher orders can go here;

www.researchgate.net/post/Why_do_we_study_only_about_the_first_few_usually_3_natural_frequencies_of_vibration_in_analyzing_the_vibrations_of_a_plate

It is a really interesting subject that one does not experience in any dramatic form except rarely, but when it is experienced one can almost believe in the occult without prior scientific knowledge.

I do not know if the old saw about the opera singer breaking a glass with her voice ever happened in reality, but I do know that those paired vibrations can do really strange things when everything lines up perfectly......Joe

[BrewDaddy]

Sept 13, 2019 17:43:18 GMT joebill said:

Anybody who would like to walk into the middle of a conversation about resonance and critical pitch vibrations of the lower and higher orders can go here;

www.researchgate.net/post/Why_do_we_study_only_about_the_first_few_usually_3_natural_frequencies_of_vibration_in_analyzing_the_vibrations_of_a_plate

It is a really interesting subject that one does not experience in any dramatic form except rarely, but when it is experienced one can almost believe in the occult without prior scientific knowledge.

I do not know if the old saw about the opera singer breaking a glass with her voice ever happened in reality, but I do know that those paired vibrations can do really strange things when everything lines up perfectly......Joe

I'd believe it... for the same reasons that soldiers break cadence when crossing a bridge... or the wind gets into the Tacoma Narrows bridge just right... get something oscillating and all sorts of things can happen...

bd

[blackfeather]

So resonating harmonic vibrations from some source caused every main structural beam in building 7 to collapse at once. I would have never even thought of that possibility. ...



and so neatly centered too.  I feel so ignorant now.

[blackfeather]

This is Toni, Blackfeather's daughter

Actually, building seven collapsed from psychic vibrations from witch's spells and their chantings. Because we all know that more people believe in witches than they do rogue agents within the government who could be responsible for 9/11. You're close Joebill, but it's the witches, not harmonic vibrations.

[blackfeather]

I'm not responsible for that ↑

[Deleted]

Sept 13, 2019 19:10:05 GMT blackfeather said:

I'm not responsible for that ↑

Well, come on! Witches doing some chanting? Could be!

[joebill]

Well, the beams are right there and much can be told by analyzing the remains, so go for it.

If anybody thinks that resonant vibrations and their effects are hokum, not much I can do about it, but explain how I can be grinding a saw blade that is room temperature and as I turn it at a certain angle to the wheel and get a squawk of sound as the blade and the wheel ring at a similar pitch, the blade is instantly too hot to hold.

I have experienced it a few other times, rarely, but not much point in discussing it if I am to be considered either a liar or a fool, or maybe the witch talk is just good, clean fun and I got my dander up without cause.

I will await the popular explanation as to the cause of the collapse of the bridge at Tacoma Narrows to find out.....Joe

[Deleted]

Where did the 'vibrations' come from? And you're thinking that's what brought down all 3 of those buildings?
Where did the puffs of smoke or whatever come from that was seen?

[joebill]

OK, I will conjecture, but that is all it is. Pure conjecture on anybody's part.

First, looking at the picture, what is on the surface are not beams. Those are, I am pretty sure, slabs of concrete, bent at either cracks or expansion joints and being held together by the rebar inside, which, you will note, did not melt nor evaporate or anything strange, just got bent where the concrete flexed too much.

Second, you will note that the actual beams under that stuff are all pretty much still straight. A couple of them are sticking up vertical in the middle of the pile, others laying horizontal under the ribbons of concrete.

Next, please note that while that pile in the foreground of the picture makes it look like the wreck was centered over it's foundation when it fell, in truth, to the left side of the picture, one can see another section and another section beyond that, both still partially assembled and elevated above ground level.

Much is being made of the steel beams being destroyed in this building, but in truth they are probably sprung past the point where a union steel worker would use them again in a new building, but otherwise perfectly fine. This does not support either theory, because demolition does not vaporize the beams, either. Both processes destroy the masonry, and it is my assumption, simply because I do not consider the matter important enough to do an extended study on it, that the masonry's weight shears the beam retention bolts and rivets and down she comes.

The "puff of smoke or whatever" is easy. That is powdered concrete, crushed to microns because of the terrific bending and crushing forces involved. That is REALLY high test concrete, it is heavy, and when it starts coming unglued, huge forces are involved.

OK, there is your conjecture. I am perfectly aware, though, that when the conspiracy theory fails on the main towers, there is always building 7 to fall back on. If there is a third position, I will prob'ly bow out.....Joe

[sawmilljim]

Well 6 billion in insurance money would be enough to bring them down.

I was talking to a guy and he was telling me about a fellows house that had burned and it was determined off the record it was started by friction. Yep the banknote got to rubbing against the insurance policy . Silverstein sued for lots more money than he got . It is real interesting that building 7 was the only building in the world at that time to fall with so little damage . Another first there were no back up for all records lost from the offices in that building.

[joebill]

All three buildings? Gosh, are we assuming that a couple of airliners did NOT strike one tower? Betcha you would get a few hundred million folks who were either present or have seen it on TV a hundred times since then who would argue with you on that. If there were no planes, what hit the field in Penn. and caused all of those deaths?

Was Todd Beamer and flight 93 all just a novel written by Nora Roberts, and if it was real, was it just a farce to make people believe in the other planes? Then, if the other planes did in fact hit the WTC but were not going to be sufficient to bring it down, why not just wire and blow the damn things and blame it on the Muslims? What was the point of arranging the airplanes? Last time it was bombed, nobody had any trouble believing it was done by enemies, so why come up with the aircraft this time?

Here are a bunch of buildings that have succumbed to "progressive collapse" over the years, including the WTC buildings, an some of the causes.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_collapse

You can also find a LOT of bridge collapses other than the one at Tacoma narrows if you look for them on the WWW, and in most cases the beginning of the end was a pretty small item, compared to the overall strength of the unit, but the damage spreads quickly and becomes more general before the total collapse.

If none of the material is sufficient to explain to the average dude, including me, how the towers came down, well, none of the conspiracy theories is sufficient to explain to me why our own government would go to all of the trouble to crash two planes into the towers first and then go in and blow the buildings down, when they could have just demolished them and blamed the whole thing on Donald Trump, claiming he destroyed them so he could get the job of rebuilding them. God only knows, people are willing to believe anything else said about him, so why not that?

That about does it for me....thanks.....Joe

[Deleted]

Did I miss the explanation of where the vibrations came from that toppled WTC7? Nope, I just went back and looked and still don't see it.

Really, I have never heard the theory of vibrations bringing a building down.

You may be right about the puffs of smoke being concrete. But they certainly could have been... something else too.

I know our government is corrupt from top to bottom. The whole system from voting to counting votes is corrupt. I believe nothing any politician tells me. I did at one time follow blindly like a sheep but my eyes have been opened now.


ETA: I never said I didn't think there were any planes flown into the WTC1 and 2. I was watching that morning, horrified as everyone else was. I'm just not convinced that planes were the only thing used to bring down those buildings.

[sawmilljim]

Sept 14, 2019 17:03:11 GMT @sunny225 said:

Did I miss the explanation of where the vibrations came from that toppled WTC7? Nope, I just went back and looked and still don't see it.

Really, I have never heard the theory of vibrations bringing a building down.

You may be right about the puffs of smoke being concrete. But they certainly could have been... something else too.

I know our government is corrupt from top to bottom. The whole system from voting to counting votes is corrupt. I believe nothing any politician tells me. I did at one time follow blindly like a sheep but my eyes have been opened now.


ETA: I never said I didn't think there were any planes flown into the WTC1 and 2. I was watching that morning, horrified as everyone else was. I'm just not convinced that planes were the only thing used to bring down those buildings.

I wish I had some extra space for books but the one by Al Gore is just to important to toss out . 

 All Governments are to be trusted  !


'But Sir, It’s an American Ship.' 'Never Mind, Hit Her!' When Israel Attacked USS Liberty