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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2020 15:13:05 GMT
Revelation 2:10-11
Do not yield to fear in the face of the suffering to come, but be aware of this: the devil is about to have some of you thrown into prison to test your faith. For ten days you will have distress, but remain faithful to the day you die and I will give you the victor’s crown of life. The one whose heart is open let him listen carefully to what the Spirit is presently saying to all the churches. The one who conquers will not be harmed by the second death.
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Post by tarbe on Jun 27, 2020 19:41:49 GMT
Those folks who belonged to the 7 Churches in Asia Minor (the ones the letter we know as "The Revelation" was written to) were certainly about to go through some serious persecution, from both the Jews and Rome (particularly Nero).
John was specifically told not to seal up the prophecies given on Patmos, as they were about to happen - as opposed to the vision Daniel was given, regarding what would befall his people in the latter days...Daniel was told to seal up that vision, as it was for a time "far off".
We can learn a lot about perseverance and faith from those who have gone before us! May this same God, who is able to keep us, do so!
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Post by woody on Jun 27, 2020 21:56:44 GMT
Amen @pony, 😇
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Post by Jolly on Jun 27, 2020 23:45:50 GMT
Few preachers teach out of Revelations anymore.
Pity.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2020 13:59:51 GMT
Few preachers teach out of Revelations anymore. Pity. We now live in a time where the prophecies of Daniel make sense, ie, are no longer sealed.
It's up to us to read it for ourselves, and let the Spirit guide us.
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Post by tarbe on Jun 28, 2020 21:17:40 GMT
From Joel Ch 2:
28 “And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions. 29 And also on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
30 “And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth: Blood and fire and pillars of smoke. 31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord. 32 And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the Lord Shall be [l]saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be [m]deliverance, As the Lord has said, Among the remnant whom the Lord calls.
--------------------------- When would this happen? This pouring out of the spirit before the great and terrible day of the Lord?
According to Peter, it happened at Pentecost! ---------------------------
In Acts ch 2:
5 And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. 6 And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language. 7 Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? 8 And how is it that we hear, each in our own [c]language in which we were born? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans and [d]Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.” 12 So they were all amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “Whatever could this mean?”
13 Others mocking said, “They are full of new wine.”
Peter’s Sermon 14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only [e]the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17 ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams. 18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; And they shall prophesy. 19 I will show wonders in heaven above And signs in the earth beneath: Blood and fire and vapor of smoke. 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord. 21 And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the Lord Shall be saved.’
Every promise of God is true and faithful.
Peter said the last days were in the first century. We need to ask...the last days of what??
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Post by paisley on Jun 29, 2020 11:03:49 GMT
Few preachers teach out of Revelations anymore. Pity. I did not like it when reading by myself... So I was not jumping for joy when we started a six month study of it.... For me I got nothing from reading on my own. It was like reading something I expect a person on an acid trip would come up with it weird and hard to read for me ....but thru the bible class and being open and honest (after afewweeks) that I did not like it and why someone took the time to help me with so the imagery and the meeaning.. It really helped.
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Post by tarbe on Jun 29, 2020 11:36:47 GMT
Few preachers teach out of Revelations anymore. Pity. We now live in a time where the prophecies of Daniel make sense, ie, are no longer sealed.
It's up to us to read it for ourselves, and let the Spirit guide us.
Pony I would argue that the visions of Daniel and John were of the same event....the destruction of Jerusalem and wiping out of the last vestiges of the Old Covenant system. The end of the sacrificial system and the Levitical Priesthood. Jesus' sacrifice did away with all that, by being the substance, or fulfillment, of the typology. This happened in 70AD. So when Daniel was shown the "end", it was far off. But when John was shown it, it was going to happen in that generation...just as Jesus stated, when he made his Olivet Discourse.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2020 11:55:57 GMT
Well, tarbe, I will say that there are often two applications of prophecy: short and long term. Have you read Michael Brown's Not Afraid of the Antichrist: Why We Don't Believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture
Good research along with anecdotal stories. I think it's a solid read. askdrbrown.myshopify.com/products/not-afraid-of-the-antichrist
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Post by tarbe on Jun 29, 2020 12:27:16 GMT
Well, tarbe , I will say that there are often two applications of prophecy: short and long term. Have you read Michael Brown's Not Afraid of the Antichrist: Why We Don't Believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture
Good research along with anecdotal stories. I think it's a solid read. askdrbrown.myshopify.com/products/not-afraid-of-the-antichristI am a lot more radical than Brown! I say the tribulation spoken of in the scriptures actually was limited to what we refer to as the Holy Land and it happened in the first century. It was the "days of vengence" that were said to fulfill all prophecy. I believe as long as humans are on earth, there will be troubles (my mantra...."people are stupid and they suck") but God, as always, is in control. The prophecies were all about Christ, His Kingdom, His redemptive work. He is sitting on the right hand of the Father, in power....now!
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Post by tarbe on Jun 29, 2020 12:39:29 GMT
Brown believes the "End Times" are yet to come?
So Peter was wrong in his reference to Joel, where he claimed they were in the latter days in the first century?
Also, in the Olivet Discourse, Jesus said that all those things would be accomplished in that generation (genea...which always, in scripture, refers to contemporaries living at the same time...never refers to a race of people).
Remember how in the first century, the Jews were expecting a Messiah...but most had a false belief regarding the mission of the Messiah (ie they thought he would be a conquering hero restoring earthly Israel to her glory...not a Messiah who brought in a spiritual kingdom)?
Christians mistake the "second coming" to be an earth-burning militaristic coming (in our future), when if fact it was a coming in judgement on Israel for rejecting/killing her Messiah...and a coming that was clearly taught to happen in the generation still alive at the time of Christ's sacrifice.
Recall C.S. Lewis' lamentation of the "most embarrassing verse in scripture". He chose to believe Jesus was wrong about the timing of the second coming, rather than to believe that his personal understanding of the nature of the second coming was wrong!! Google it...interesting stuff!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2020 17:26:50 GMT
Not going to get into an eschatological discussion on this with you, tarbe. None of us has the correct answers, and we do our best to understand Scripture as the Spirit guides us. And while I appreciate Lewis (and Brown, and Spurgeon, and lots of other writers), none of them are the burning bush.
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Post by tarbe on Jun 29, 2020 18:52:13 GMT
Not going to get into an eschatological discussion on this with you, tarbe . None of us has the correct answers, and we do our best to understand Scripture as the Spirit guides us. And while I appreciate Lewis (and Brown, and Spurgeon, and lots of other writers), none of them are the burning bush. Especially Lewis! Edit: We all do well to remember we are called to be like those noble ones in Berea...who studied the scriptures daily to see if what they were being taught was so. If I can be so bold...I think a lot of the mess the churches have gotten themselves into is because they teach their people to be the opposite of Bereans...."Just believe what we teach you"!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2020 18:57:40 GMT
Not going to get into an eschatological discussion on this with you, tarbe . None of us has the correct answers, and we do our best to understand Scripture as the Spirit guides us. And while I appreciate Lewis (and Brown, and Spurgeon, and lots of other writers), none of them are the burning bush. Especially Lewis! Indeed. Great at allegory, impressive at apologetics, but had a few interesting ways of looking at things.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2020 19:25:02 GMT
Not going to get into an eschatological discussion on this with you, tarbe . None of us has the correct answers, and we do our best to understand Scripture as the Spirit guides us. And while I appreciate Lewis (and Brown, and Spurgeon, and lots of other writers), none of them are the burning bush. Especially Lewis! Edit: We all do well to remember we are called to be like those noble ones in Berea...who studied the scriptures daily to see if what they were being taught was so. If I can be so bold...I think a lot of the mess the churches have gotten themselves into is because they teach their people to be the opposite of Bereans...." Just believe what we teach you"! I grew up RC, so I understand first-hand what it is to be told, "Just accept it because we told you."
I also know what it is to actually open the Bible and read it, after being told for so long that others "better" than me already had all the info.
While I admit that I certainly don't have all the answers, I also know that I must constantly seek my Father's will, and to know Him better by studying His love letters to us.
There is a certain caution I have developed about the discussion of adiaphora. Whie it can be a fun mental exercise, I prefer finding ways we can agree, than examining our differences ad infinitum.
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