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Post by Jolly on Sept 25, 2020 11:41:19 GMT
Nope.
I've got too much sense to argue with a cop. Things are more calm in a courtroom.
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Post by wildhorseluvr on Sept 25, 2020 12:32:40 GMT
Nope. I've got too much sense to argue with a cop. Things are more calm in a courtroom. I agree with never arguing with a cop (unless he's a friend, in which case I do it all the time 😁 ). I don't agree with this cop tasing this woman unless there is more to the story. Not wearing a mask or even arguing doesn't warrant being tased. 🙁
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Post by DEKE on Sept 25, 2020 12:46:58 GMT
I don't know anything about this story except the posts I've seen here. I'm just confused by the reactions of some of our gang.
1. If a cop tells you to leave or you'll be cited for trespassing, what should he do if you don't comply? You can argue he should not have trespassed her, but sometimes cops are wrong and, as Jolly said, judges have to sort it out. So what should the cop do at that point?
2. Based on many of the messages here, I assume many of you think he should have let her be after she refused his order. How many of you think that when a cop tells a non violent BLM protester on public property to move on and the protester doesn't, that the cop should taze the guy or arrest him or physically make him move?
3. Do you have a different standard for someone watching a sports game vs someone protesting a political cause you may or may not support?
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Post by wildhorseluvr on Sept 25, 2020 14:13:23 GMT
Just my opinion: the woman could have been cited, or even arrested if she refused to leave. Unless she physically attacked the officer, tasing seems waaay over the top. (I'm a bit sensitive to the tasing issue, being one who might not survive it.) If cited/arrested, the woman could have argued her case in court, sued, whatever. Not knowing the details, I can't really judge either party at this point. We have had numerous protests in my town, with BLM protesters being arrested when they did the exact opposite of what the police told them to do (or not do). Often this was when they would throw themselves down in the street and block traffic AFTER being told they would be arrested if they did so. Our cops showed extreme patience, attempting to reason with them and giving repeated warnings/chances to move with no consequences. They refused, they were arrested. One of our locals may have been arrested too, but if it was who I think it was, he deserved it as well. At no time were any of them roughed up or tased.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2020 15:51:13 GMT
He should have written her a ticket and let it go. And DEKE , if someone is peacefully protesting and not impeding the lives of others, then he should be cited and allowed to go on his way. If, as wildhorseluvr shared, the person in question is blocking traffic or otherwise interfering with the lives of others, cuff him and take him to the hoosegow.
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Post by fordy on Sept 25, 2020 16:07:26 GMT
Nope. I've got too much sense to argue with a cop. Things are more calm in a courtroom. ..................So , you assume everyone can afford a lawyer to represent them in any and all court proceedings ? Just 'DO' as I say cause Cops are ALWAYS right ?? , fordy
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Post by farmerjack41 on Sept 25, 2020 16:14:13 GMT
99.9% of these folks would have been much better off, if just do as you are told. If you happen to be right, it can be sorted out in the future. If you are right in the end, you can most likely collect a goodly sum of money. My question in this town, were there not more important needs of a police officer that worrying about a mask. Were all 911 calls being answered, was the drunk driver on the street being stopped, etc.
In my years as a police office, if had been sent on a call like this, violation of mask order only, no other problem, I would have found a more pressing problem on my way to the first call. Kinda like if sent on a call of a bar fight, drove very slow and took the longer route. Easier to arrest only one after the fight is over, than have both of them turn on you.
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Post by Ozarks Tom on Sept 25, 2020 16:39:42 GMT
Watching the video, the part where she's being walked away, she appears to be rather diminutive, while the cop on her left is probably 6'4" and 250 pounds. Using the taser exhibited a sadistic streak in my opinion. His mental bent should disqualify him from police/security jobs completely.
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Post by themotherhen on Sept 25, 2020 20:03:42 GMT
As far as I know the police in Ohio don't enforce mask orders. Businesses are cited by the department of health for violations, police aren't involved. I have a feeling that the administrator in the video has an elevated sense of self importance.
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Post by Jolly on Sept 25, 2020 22:08:25 GMT
I've worked for many years around some pretty obstinate people, some violent, some not. Cops were a daily fixture in our ER. Well, to be honest, our we had a jail cell, steel bars and all. We needed it.
When a cop tells you to do something, you do it, unless you are ready for the ensuing confrontation. At that point, you will be arrested. Citations are for traffic stops and meter maids. Once a cop decides to arrest you, you are going in the squad car. You have no other options. You can go easy or you can go hard, but go you will. When the woman pushed it to the point she had to be removed, she had to go
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. If she disliked having a mask on that much, don't go to the game, and make sure you're at the next school board meeting, so you can passionately voice your opinion. Or try to get other people involved and generate political heat. Don't try to make a statement at the wrong place, at the wrong time, against the wrong person.
Forty years ago, when I was a newbie in the biz, if a gal or guy had refused to be handcuffed, a cop might hand-fight him/her for a second or two, then he would grab you up, slam your face in the floor and straddle you while the arms get wrenched behind the back and the cuffs go on. And if he couldn't get you down, he had lots of buddies to help. Tazing seems almost civilized. At least it's a lot less bloody.😄
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Post by farmrbrown on Sept 25, 2020 22:40:49 GMT
It's good advice to NOT fight with a cop and it's equally good advice to make sure that if a cop is abusing his authority you DON'T let it slide either. I had a similar situation a few months ago at the Verizon store. I was ILLEGALLY told to leave the premises. I did, but my next stop was the police station and got a phone call from the chief later that day. But not fighting doesn't mean the same as tolerating what was done.
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Post by Ozarks Tom on Sept 25, 2020 23:59:51 GMT
My biggest problem with the situation as we know it isn't some school security guard or small town policeman telling her to put on her mask. It's not even so much arresting her for refusing if that's the law in the town. It's the taser, and his willingness to use it on a woman half his size who he could have easily controlled without getting downright sadistic.
In my opinion the cop/guard was abusing his authority in the first place. In the video you can see the woman and her kid weren't near anyone else at the sparsely attended game. Captain Courageous decided he couldn't overlook a minor infraction, he had to prove to everyone in attendance he was a righteous defender of a stupid ordinance.
I agree, when confronted with a cop like that the best thing to do is not resist, you're not going to win then and there. But, the cop's actions are reprehensible in every respect.
Oh wait, she was white. Guess there won't be any riots.
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Post by joebill on Sept 26, 2020 6:30:06 GMT
It's like watching an earthquake build to maximum force......
Now we have another person who no doubt thinks she has just cause to shoot any cop she runs across.....and I might feel the same if I had been tased while minding my own business and keeping my germs to myself.
Nobody seems to put any thought into their actions......EXCEPT the cops who let the rioters do as they like when it seems to me they should be breaking heads.
I truly wish I was reading about this in a history book after it had all been resolved....Joe
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Post by themotherhen on Sept 26, 2020 7:59:26 GMT
At what other time in our history have we been mandated to cover our faces in public? At what other time have we been subject to arrest, tazing (which can kill someone, remember?), been kept in quarantine (even if healthy), had every single normal day to day interaction shut down (schools, church, gyms, work, restaurants, libraries, playgrounds, clubs, non-emergency care, medical treatments, and the list goes on.)
At what point, ever, has society decided to absolutely jump the freaking shark and start beating people into submission? Hell, when O was president we had H1N1, he ordered that they stopped testing for it. The media was complacent, as were the politicians.
I am not arguing that Covid19 can be dangerous to the vulnerable. I am arguing that it is ridiculous to shut down society and put the 99% at risk of certain harm and chaos to protect the 1% that should shield themselves anyway.
Good freaking grief, I have seen how the lockdowns have destroyed my family, friends, neighbors, etc that aren't vulnerable. I haven't seen my baby sister since March, she's a dental assistant and is terrified of infecting us. I really miss her, and my Dad. He is a big guy and is diabetic. Haven't seen him since January.
Quarantine the sick and vulnerable. Please, for the love of God, let the rest of us live.
P.S. Stop with these ridiculous draconian orders. The state legislature makes laws, not the freaking power hungry governors.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2020 9:17:40 GMT
As I understand it... 1. The school mandates masks and distancing in the stadium. 2. I don't know if she wore a mask into the stadium and then took it off, or just did not wear one. 3. She was asked by the cop to don a mask or please leave. 4. She refused. She stated she had asthma. 5. She was asked again to leave. Again she refused. 6. That turns into trespassing, and then the cop has a legal right to arrest you. Here's the law: codes.findlaw.com/oh/title-xxix-crimes-procedure/oh-rev-code-sect-2911-23.html7. She resisted arrest. 8. Now, the cop has the right to make you comply, by force. In this case, she got tazed. 9. Criminal Trespass is a First Degree Misdemeanor, punishable by 180 days in jail and a fine of up to $1000. She had the mask in her pocket. Locals say she did intentionally to start of ruckus.
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